Ah man, I wish I had some recording for that duo...
Norbert Lucarain on vibes + Hubert Dupont on double bass...
These two had a great cooperation a few years ago, but no recording came out of it... I remember some smoking gigs in Paris!!! They had called themselves "NORZUB"...
I only have left a picture and French presentation of the two of them, that might let you imagine what it sounded like! :o)
David Friedman has recorded several selected duets with Harvey Schwartz on some of his CDs. They're not entire albums of duets, but you can find some super vibe/bass work there. The recordings I have date back to the 80s and 90s. I don't know if there are more recent examples.
There's a recording titled "For Duke" with Gary and Jay Leonhart (sp). It's a quartet album and the piece of interest is "Take the A Train" which is a vibes/bass duet. Listen to it with extreme caution, because if you're interested in the vibe/bass format for yourself you'll probably end up selling your intrument.
this is what puzzles me. very few duo cds. a few trio cds. i wonder why although via looking inside of me i think i know why.
i think (i'm not sure) that we all think that 60 minutes of vibes and bass would be too much, or boring, or whatever. am i wrong in thinking that that's what most of us think? let me know.
when i talk to vibes players we're always talking about how 3 hours of vibes is a lot. we don't say that about piano, and i understand why, piano is the whole orchestra, we're just part of it (referring to our range).
these are just thoughts that go through my head and some is based on conversation. but nothing is hard set. feel free to educate me.
i fantasize about being able to play an hour concert solo, like burton did. man how many vibe players have played a complete solo concert. i wonder.
when i listen to guys with much more experience than me, like friedman and joe locke and of course burton i hear the way the 'sculpt' there cds to make sure there is variety on them.
how do you play solo vibes for an hour or an hour and a half and do that?
this is part of the reason i'm interested in making the next vibe hang, all solo vibes. let's see what we come up with.
i had a talk with mike pinto about this today and how we feel about playing solo vibes.
i think it all has to do with the line. we have to make sure that the line is there and people can follow us, then i think this is possible. that's something i notice in every great solo vibe performance i've heard. a cut on a cd, or someone playing live. without the line this instrument gets very mushy to me when played solo.
i think all this leads to very very few recordings. i know of a couple vibe players with solo vibe cds. doesn't piltzeker have a solo cd out? burton does.
friedman is totally courageous with all this and has a couple trio cds out and i though a duo cd. (there's a post somewhere here)
and joe locke did a trio cd. also a very courageous player!
It is us as vibe players that need to get passed the Gary Burton age. Just like Gary jumped passed the Milt Jackson two mallet age. We need to think differently and challenge ourselves to go outside of our own barriers and constraints.
I think accepting and utilizing some new characteristics of the instrument may help. Like extended range, pickups, various modulators(time,amplitude,pitch etc), but I don't think it is necessary.
Frankly I think rhythm is the first place to look for opportunity. Harmony is already heavily represented and melodies are often ornamental and full of embellishments. Its not about four mallets or two or three. Its not about the instrument. Its about the music one makes with it. I think this new music will have much more space and opportunity for reflection and excitement.
And even more frankly I don't care whether its called jazz or pop or {pick a name} as long as it smells of spirit and excellence and moves people.
I think it's possible to play a solo vibe gig and make it interesting.
Somebody will do it.
Is it going to be you?
Todd Canedy
Don't stop asking until you understand. Once you understand constantly confirm it.
Related to playing solo, I wonder why there aren't more vibes players that play in piano-less groups. For example, Ed Saindon does this regularly, but Gary and Joe don't (at least most of the time).
what do we feel inside about all this. why do we make these choices? if we have a quartet then why do we choose a chordal instrument for the 4th piece.
when i do (not usually), it's partly because i'm sick of my stuff and want some fresh voicings in the mix. the way someone comps underneath you really can change your stuff.
Just to set the record straight. My first recording, New Vibe Man In Town, was a vibes/bass/drums trio record. I spent three years playing with Stan Getz as the only chordal instrument in the band and made several records with Stan. I recorded a duo record with bassist Steve Swallow called Hotel Hello. I also recorded solo and did solo concerts regularly for a couple of years. Then in the late 70's/early 80's for five years, I had groups with either trumpet or saxophone, no piano. Made three records with those groups, and too many concerts to count. These days, however, I don't find it as interesting musically, to be the only chordal instrument. I'm just following my instincts. I will be playing a concert in Norway in July with tenor sax, vibes, bass and drums. Maybe I'll find a renewed interest.
these are the things i'm curious about. what is not interesting about it? is it just a personal thing? is it a limitation you feel of the instrument? just want someone else putting the harmony in with you.
in the back of my head is all this stuff. bad things. like 'is an hour of vibes is boring?'. like: are 3 sets of a vibe trio is boring?
what i wonder is do others feel that way or is that just my baggage? and then should i be saying that 3 sets of ME playing in a trio is boring.
so to here you say that, makes me very curious.
i practice playing solo ALL the time, but could never do what you did (play concerts completely solo). but that's a fantasy of mine.
all head stuff maybe and maybe partly the instrument.
i hope i'm making sense, and all this is very very interesting to me!
I'm sorry that I implied that you haven't done a lot of vibes-as-the-only-chordal instrument playing. My parenthetical statement should've been more like "at least most of the time, lately, on recordings" :-).
hi gary you know even you think this kind of records without piano you do not find interest musically, I find can be for a any vibes player a great challenge.
in my case i listen this records from you and i was very fascinating and the give me the idea to make some similar
I love the time i spend comping for another soloist and try to grow into a great backgroung harmonys for the group
i make two records inpiring by you
one of them comping for a tenor sax making the music of jerry bergonzi and the other in a hardbop context with trumpet and alto sax
I think was very learning process how i fell comping for other and when arrive my solo be alone ( it was so dificult)and works like a piano player
(all to me start when I listening you the sound of love version)
Tony wrote, "i practice playing solo ALL the time, but could never do what you did (play concerts completely solo). but that's a fantasy of mine. all head stuff maybe and maybe partly the instrument."
You may have answered your own question here. There really is no such thing as a completely solo gig if you consider the audience the other member of the "band." So when you practice you are both performer and audience. As a pianist, it's true that I have 88 keys instead of 37 bars to work with, but I still have to consider that the audience is an equal member of my solo act; the only difference is that they pay and I get paid, but they basically get to call the tunes.
I think it's the same deal with a duo - it's really a trio of vibes, bass, and audience whether it's a live audience or the record-buying audience. I think of the old saying about the falling tree not making a sound if nobody hears it.
Comments
Lucarain/Dupont
Marie-Noëlle Mon, 05/24/2010 - 13:03
Ah man, I wish I had some recording for that duo...
Norbert Lucarain on vibes + Hubert Dupont on double bass...
These two had a great cooperation a few years ago, but no recording came out of it... I remember some smoking gigs in Paris!!! They had called themselves "NORZUB"...
I only have left a picture and French presentation of the two of them, that might let you imagine what it sounded like! :o)
http://www.hubertdupont.com/norzub.htm
david friedman and harvey schwartz duets for bass and vibes
tedwolff Mon, 05/24/2010 - 14:58
David Friedman has recorded several selected duets with Harvey Schwartz on some of his CDs. They're not entire albums of duets, but you can find some super vibe/bass work there. The recordings I have date back to the 80s and 90s. I don't know if there are more recent examples.
Ted.
Cerulean Blue: new CD by Ted Wolff. Go to http://cdbaby.com/cd/kleinwolff
I haven't been able to find
toddc Tue, 05/25/2010 - 10:34
In reply to david friedman and harvey schwartz duets for bass and vibes by tedwolff
I haven't been able to find these duets yet.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Todd Canedy
Don't stop asking until you understand. Once you understand constantly confirm it.
There's a recording titled
DrBobM55 Mon, 05/24/2010 - 21:17
There's a recording titled "For Duke" with Gary and Jay Leonhart (sp). It's a quartet album and the piece of interest is "Take the A Train" which is a vibes/bass duet. Listen to it with extreme caution, because if you're interested in the vibe/bass format for yourself you'll probably end up selling your intrument.
Bob Wesner
there are not a lot
tonymiceli Mon, 05/24/2010 - 22:29
this is what puzzles me. very few duo cds. a few trio cds. i wonder why although via looking inside of me i think i know why.
i think (i'm not sure) that we all think that 60 minutes of vibes and bass would be too much, or boring, or whatever. am i wrong in thinking that that's what most of us think? let me know.
when i talk to vibes players we're always talking about how 3 hours of vibes is a lot. we don't say that about piano, and i understand why, piano is the whole orchestra, we're just part of it (referring to our range).
these are just thoughts that go through my head and some is based on conversation. but nothing is hard set. feel free to educate me.
i fantasize about being able to play an hour concert solo, like burton did. man how many vibe players have played a complete solo concert. i wonder.
when i listen to guys with much more experience than me, like friedman and joe locke and of course burton i hear the way the 'sculpt' there cds to make sure there is variety on them.
how do you play solo vibes for an hour or an hour and a half and do that?
this is part of the reason i'm interested in making the next vibe hang, all solo vibes. let's see what we come up with.
i had a talk with mike pinto about this today and how we feel about playing solo vibes.
i think it all has to do with the line. we have to make sure that the line is there and people can follow us, then i think this is possible. that's something i notice in every great solo vibe performance i've heard. a cut on a cd, or someone playing live. without the line this instrument gets very mushy to me when played solo.
i think all this leads to very very few recordings. i know of a couple vibe players with solo vibe cds. doesn't piltzeker have a solo cd out? burton does.
friedman is totally courageous with all this and has a couple trio cds out and i though a duo cd. (there's a post somewhere here)
and joe locke did a trio cd. also a very courageous player!
enough! i'll stop
i know i'm rambling but this got me thinking!
------------------------
Tony Miceli
www.tonymiceli.com (new)
s k y p e: tjazzvibe
tony@tonymiceli.com
www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Miceli/604414578
http://twitter.com/tonymiceli
http://www.myspace.com/tonymicelivibes
Its not a matter of the instrument!
toddc Tue, 05/25/2010 - 10:10
In reply to there are not a lot by tonymiceli
It is us as vibe players that need to get passed the Gary Burton age. Just like Gary jumped passed the Milt Jackson two mallet age. We need to think differently and challenge ourselves to go outside of our own barriers and constraints.
I think accepting and utilizing some new characteristics of the instrument may help. Like extended range, pickups, various modulators(time,amplitude,pitch etc), but I don't think it is necessary.
Frankly I think rhythm is the first place to look for opportunity. Harmony is already heavily represented and melodies are often ornamental and full of embellishments. Its not about four mallets or two or three. Its not about the instrument. Its about the music one makes with it. I think this new music will have much more space and opportunity for reflection and excitement.
And even more frankly I don't care whether its called jazz or pop or {pick a name} as long as it smells of spirit and excellence and moves people.
I think it's possible to play a solo vibe gig and make it interesting.
Somebody will do it.
Is it going to be you?
Todd Canedy
Don't stop asking until you understand. Once you understand constantly confirm it.
Vibes without piano
tpvibes Tue, 05/25/2010 - 10:27
In reply to there are not a lot by tonymiceli
Related to playing solo, I wonder why there aren't more vibes players that play in piano-less groups. For example, Ed Saindon does this regularly, but Gary and Joe don't (at least most of the time).
Tom P.
i'm curious also
tonymiceli Tue, 05/25/2010 - 12:49
In reply to Vibes without piano by tpvibes
from a players perspective.
what do we feel inside about all this. why do we make these choices? if we have a quartet then why do we choose a chordal instrument for the 4th piece.
when i do (not usually), it's partly because i'm sick of my stuff and want some fresh voicings in the mix. the way someone comps underneath you really can change your stuff.
------------------------
Tony Miceli
www.tonymiceli.com (new)
s k y p e: tjazzvibe
tony@tonymiceli.com
www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Miceli/604414578
http://twitter.com/tonymiceli
http://www.myspace.com/tonymicelivibes
Playing without piano (or guitar)
Gary Burton Tue, 05/25/2010 - 14:55
In reply to Vibes without piano by tpvibes
Just to set the record straight. My first recording, New Vibe Man In Town, was a vibes/bass/drums trio record. I spent three years playing with Stan Getz as the only chordal instrument in the band and made several records with Stan. I recorded a duo record with bassist Steve Swallow called Hotel Hello. I also recorded solo and did solo concerts regularly for a couple of years. Then in the late 70's/early 80's for five years, I had groups with either trumpet or saxophone, no piano. Made three records with those groups, and too many concerts to count. These days, however, I don't find it as interesting musically, to be the only chordal instrument. I'm just following my instincts. I will be playing a concert in Norway in July with tenor sax, vibes, bass and drums. Maybe I'll find a renewed interest.
Gary B
gary: why don't you find it musically intersting?
tonymiceli Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:18
In reply to Playing without piano (or guitar) by Gary Burton
these are the things i'm curious about. what is not interesting about it? is it just a personal thing? is it a limitation you feel of the instrument? just want someone else putting the harmony in with you.
in the back of my head is all this stuff. bad things. like 'is an hour of vibes is boring?'. like: are 3 sets of a vibe trio is boring?
what i wonder is do others feel that way or is that just my baggage? and then should i be saying that 3 sets of ME playing in a trio is boring.
so to here you say that, makes me very curious.
i practice playing solo ALL the time, but could never do what you did (play concerts completely solo). but that's a fantasy of mine.
all head stuff maybe and maybe partly the instrument.
i hope i'm making sense, and all this is very very interesting to me!
------------------------
Tony Miceli
www.tonymiceli.com (new)
s k y p e: tjazzvibe
tony@tonymiceli.com
www.facebook.com/people/Tony-Miceli/604414578
http://twitter.com/tonymiceli
http://www.myspace.com/tonymicelivibes
Lately
tpvibes Wed, 05/26/2010 - 09:44
In reply to Playing without piano (or guitar) by Gary Burton
Hi Gary,
I'm sorry that I implied that you haven't done a lot of vibes-as-the-only-chordal instrument playing. My parenthetical statement should've been more like "at least most of the time, lately, on recordings" :-).
Tom P.
to me inspiring me this kind of album you did
arturo serra Wed, 05/26/2010 - 19:20
In reply to Playing without piano (or guitar) by Gary Burton
hi gary you know even you think this kind of records without piano you do not find interest musically, I find can be for a any vibes player a great challenge.
in my case i listen this records from you and i was very fascinating and the give me the idea to make some similar
I love the time i spend comping for another soloist and try to grow into a great backgroung harmonys for the group
i make two records inpiring by you
one of them comping for a tenor sax making the music of jerry bergonzi and the other in a hardbop context with trumpet and alto sax
I think was very learning process how i fell comping for other and when arrive my solo be alone ( it was so dificult)and works like a piano player
(all to me start when I listening you the sound of love version)
Joe Locke in duet... last minute!
Marie-Noëlle Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:49
In reply to Vibes without piano by tpvibes
If ever you're around NYC, Joe Locke is playing in duet with Harpist Edmar Casteñada... tomorrow 26th! (Jazz Standard)
http://www.jazzstandard.net/red/index.html
- M
the audience is your partner
John Keene Wed, 05/26/2010 - 10:53
Tony wrote, "i practice playing solo ALL the time, but could never do what you did (play concerts completely solo). but that's a fantasy of mine. all head stuff maybe and maybe partly the instrument."
You may have answered your own question here. There really is no such thing as a completely solo gig if you consider the audience the other member of the "band." So when you practice you are both performer and audience. As a pianist, it's true that I have 88 keys instead of 37 bars to work with, but I still have to consider that the audience is an equal member of my solo act; the only difference is that they pay and I get paid, but they basically get to call the tunes.
I think it's the same deal with a duo - it's really a trio of vibes, bass, and audience whether it's a live audience or the record-buying audience. I think of the old saying about the falling tree not making a sound if nobody hears it.