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Bar Whine/ Buzz

BandanaMan 7 August 2024

I have a YV-3910; 3.5 octave.

Recently the lower end of the instrument, both accidentals and naturals; have developed a bar whine; noticeable when damper is off. When the note sustains there is a whine of that same note. A very fine tinsel like whine that sustains along with the note. It sounds almost like it does when your bar is cracked just a tiny tiny bit; but I heavily doubt the entire first octave of the instrument has ever single bar cracked. Plus one of those bars is very new. And it hasn’t changed in months the way a cracked bar would. When I first play that day it seems to be diminished, but the more I play the instrument consecutively the worse it seems to get. I always use soft mallets on that end of the instrument.

On the naturals I just have cotton rope as the suspension cord. I pulled it all the way through so all the rope holding the bars is brand new but the whine was unaffected. I have new Yamaha brand cord I could use, but I think it won’t make a difference. The cord on the accidentals is the Yamaha cord, and while it’s not new, it is not visibly worn, the accidentals have the whine too, and I’ve never quite heard this whine before.

Note that my motor and motor belt is off because the rheostat on my motor controller is getting repaired; so there is nothing holding the paddles still. However when I hold the paddle assembly as you can on the accidentals because of the space between the notes; the whine is unaffected.

Which leads me to think it’s some little screw or something loose somewhere; but when the note is played it seems to be coming from very close to the bar being played.

Could it be dust accumulated in my resonators (never cleaned them) or the damper felt?

Supporting Files
Vibraphone Bar Whine 2.mp3

Comments

Randy_Sutin Mon, 08/12/2024 - 16:30

Please post a recording of the noise so we can hear it. We might recognize it.

...and... a Piper suggestion that I love: get yourself a stethoscope. It can help isolate noises as you place it against various parts of the instrument.

BandanaMan Sun, 08/18/2024 - 17:17

I'll get an isolated recording of the sound today. I am leaning toward it just being a cracked bar that gets vibrated when other notes near it are played.

In regards to the stethoscope; how is this done? I can see how that would work well for areas where the stethoscope can sit flat, like the damper bar, but if its coming from a loose screw on the frame or elsewhere where the stethoscope can't sit flat will this still work? It also seems like this may not work on the bars itself.

If a bar is cracked and the damper is off will placing the stethoscope on one end of the bar allow you to pick up the sound that results from a crack without deadening all noise coming from the bar?

BandanaMan Wed, 08/21/2024 - 22:15

Hi Randy,

I uploaded the recording. I am not really familiar with this community. This was my first post ever I think. If John has a tutorial on how to use the stethoscope that would be very helpful. Is he a user here that I can send a dm to?

IndianaGlen Mon, 08/19/2024 - 07:59

Here are some random things to try that are cheap or free and easy.
Can anyone else hear it?
It’s ‘possible’ that there’s something in the room that’s singing along, have you tried to move your vibe into another room? I have had drums nearby my vibe vibrate (not just snare drums), but that’s usually pitch specific.
My first bet is you’re getting some kind of vibration from one of the post insulators. You can gently move the bars around a little and push them from side to side to see if that changes anything. Per other posts though without a recording we’re flying blind.
Remove the resonators and see if the problem goes away.
Remove the natural bars and test, put em back and remove the accidentals…
If there is crud in the resonators most can be removed by removing and blowing with a compressor or a long wooden dowel rod with a rag tied to the end. Be gentle. My guess is it won’t help the whine but it’s good to do. I bought a vibe from a school, I found a quarter in one of the resonators BTW.
Start pressing stuff with your fingers. e.g. bars that you aren’t hitting and frame, resonator areas.
Raise one side of the frame a little (have someone lift it a couple inches off the floor).
Try different mallets. I’ve worked on a 3.5 octave yamaha, the low bars especially seemed to want to bring out strong overtones with certain mallets and where you hit them
Grab couple of moving blankets drape them over all the bars except the one that you’re hitting
In my limited experience, the bars I’ve seen/plated that were cracked went almost a 1/2 tone flat it was very obvious. All the bars around it sounded fine.

BandanaMan Wed, 08/21/2024 - 22:13

Hi everyone;

I have uploaded a recording.

On this recording there is clearly one note you can hear that has this metallic whine. However other notes surrounding it also have this whine.

I am leaning towards it being a cracked bar because thats what it sounds like....but what is weird is that it seemed to jump around to different notes which seems to indicate it is something that is loose and vibrating at different frequencies as it becomes looser. At first I was hearing it a lot on my low C#. But now it is loudest on the lowest G# and not so much on the C#. The note you can hear it on in the recording most prominently is the G#. However, that is my newest bar. You can hear it on the surrounding naturals on either side of that G#, but not as loud. That G# is a note I use a lot. However I use soft mallets with rattan handles. I got that bar about a year ago and I did notice the color/ anodized coating of that bar is a slightly different color; so I wonder if yamaha changed something about the alloy that made them easier to crack?

The sound is definitely coming from the vibraphone. There are other drum sets and equipment in the room; but I can usually tell if a rattle or something is coming from elsewhere.

Why I am not completely sold that it is the bar is that suddenly another set of notes has developed an odd deadening as if the damper would be on even though it is not. Also on the accidentals an octave down from the G# with that whine. Weirdly this deadening sensation is perceived when standing above the instrument, but when I lean sideways a little bit so I can see the opening of the resonator it suddenly becomes loud (which I guess makes sense.) It is mostly on the F# right next to the G# an octave higher than the one with the whine; and very close to where the two piece resonators interlock together.

On this vibraphone the resonators are two pieces that interlock together. I put it together myself; 3 years ago now. I can't remember if there were screws to tighten or not but I guess I am going to take all the bars off and inspect the resonators.

I am leaning towards it being either cracked bar, something loose about the resonators, or a combination of those issues.

BarryK Thu, 08/22/2024 - 20:29

I think what you are hearing are the overtones of the bar itself. I don't hear any rattling or sympathetic vibrations in your recordings. I would think if the bar was cracked it would be more dead sounding that what is in the recording. I have a Yamaha 3710 3.0 octave vibraphone. On my low Ab, for instance, I hear the fundamental, another Ab (two octaves above that), and, kinda hard to discern, but maybe a high A natural above that.

- Barry

BandanaMan Fri, 08/23/2024 - 01:07

Hi Barry,

I tend to think this is not the case. Those high pitches suddenly developed recently. I've had it for years. It has never sounded like this. Note that in the recording there is only one note that has this high pitched tinny noise with any prominence. The second note I hit directly after the first has that high pitched "overtone" to it. I play it a few more times throughout. You can hear clearly in a recording along with other instruments if the note is allowed to ring. You will hear that high pitched whine over a drum set. Also note that I am hitting all the bars with the same velocity. At 26 seconds the note I hit is not very loud in volume. At 27 seconds I hit a note that is much louder eventhough I hit it no harder.

What I did find yesterday when I took all my accidental bars off is that there should be 4 screws holding the two sides of the resonator bank together. I don't know if the 3710 resonators are all one piece, but on the 3910 the two sides fit together like a puzzle piece with a few screws holding the pieces together. However those 4 screws are totally missing. Therefore the resonators are not held still. This is probably where my issues are coming from. It did not start happening until recently, which coincides with when I took my motor off to send it in for repair (the rheostat on the motor controller was broken). The tension from the motor belt was probably holding the resonators still; whereas now the "puzzle pieces" have rattled a bit loose. I can't remember if those screws were there when I assembled the instrument as it was over 3 years ago; they may have just been absent and it never produced an issue because of the tension from the motor belt. It would be really odd if someone else in the rehearsal space took them out of spite.

I have had cracked bars before and they do sometimes produce a high pitch like this, which usually morphs into a muffle as the crack gets worse.

However I can not test my theory about those missing screws for the resonators because apparently they are backordered for 12-16 weeks.

Vince H Fri, 08/23/2024 - 12:24

The screws should be readily available from a hardware supplier. If you can find a similar screw on the resonators, take it off, check to see if it fits in the empty screw hole. If so, take it into the hardware store and get the exact thing. You can also order sets that have all sizes of machined screws and threaded holes , but this won't be necessary if you can find a similar screw on the Yamaha itself. It will most likely be metric. Not sure where you're located but lots of metric screws at McMaster Carr online.

BandanaMan Sat, 08/24/2024 - 00:31

Hi Vince,

I did think about this, but there are not any other screws that match on the entire vibraphone. It's these specific screws that are missing across both resonators. I did think about simply getting some screws from the hardware store but there are two possible issues with this: the first being that if they are threaded in some weird non standard thread for some reason (which is unlikely but not impossible, I suppose I could ask Yamaha) that I could ruin the threading on the vibraphone resonators by trying to force something in...thereby ruining my entire resonators. The second is that the Yamaha factory ones are winged, so that you can slide them in and tighten them even as the resonators sit inside the harp. Otherwise I would have to take the resonators completely off so I could use a screwdriver. While holding one side of the resonator in each hand to remove them is not impossible having two people might be ideal. I did reach out to Yamaha and they said they would send me a set of replacement screws no charge, but it will still take 6+ weeks.

A last and minor issue is that the yamaha hardware is probably painted gold to match the color of the resonators; whereas a hardware screw would not be (quite trivial haha).

I also ordered another G# bar, as this is where the noise is most prominent, just in case it is cracked.

Randy_Sutin Fri, 08/23/2024 - 21:25

Does it make the sound with the resonators totally off the instrument?

If so, get one and place the stethoscope against each part of the frame until the noise gets loudest…. Should provide some good clues about its source.

Let us know what surfaces.

Of course, if it doesn’t do that with the resonators off, then you have also isolated the source of the issue to the resonators.

Best of luck!

BandanaMan Sat, 08/24/2024 - 00:17

No, it will not make the noise with the damper on. However I have found that when a bar is just starting to crack often it is hard to notice when the damper is engaged as well. I can always most easily tell when a bar got a little crack forming when you let a whole note ring with the damper off.

Edit: Actually no; I have not tried taking the dampers totally off. I should have thought of that. I guess maybe why I didn't think to do this is that because they are not attached together as a single piece I would not feel comfortable trying to handle both ends without a helper as it would be a major bummer if I tried grabbing one side in each hand and ended up dropping them and denting them as I tried to lift them up.

Also; if the noise is coming from the bar rather than the resonators; will taking the resonators off lower the volume of all sound coming from the bar? I have actually never tried striking a bar with the resonators totally off.

Randy_Sutin Fri, 08/23/2024 - 21:25

Does it make the sound with the resonators totally off the instrument?

If so, get one and place the stethoscope against each part of the frame until the noise gets loudest…. Should provide some good clues about its source.

Let us know what surfaces.

Of course, if it doesn’t do that with the resonators off, then you have also isolated the source of the issue to the resonators.

Best of luck!

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