Wow, that was an amazing quick set up, faster than any other product on the market as far as I know. One question for you. Are the bar posts o rings or hooks? You may have covered this in earlier posts but I don't remember which you used.
I used hooks (form A) for the frames I have build up to now.
But you can get everything you want. May be a combination of form A in the outer lines and form B in the inner lines. Ring posts are not necessary and not senceful, because removing the bars takes too long. If you fear to lose the bars during transport, the hook posts could for example be arranged in alternating direction.
Thank you. I thought you had used hooks and saddle posts, which is the standard now used by all manufacturers. The ease of removing the bars when you have to is essential and portability is not a problem. A few years ago, I replaced the o rings on my 1950's Deagan vibes with hook and saddle posts. It was a project but I'm thankful for it everyday.
The posts, rails and spacers are all made of aluminum and in your implementation these items are in contact with one another (such allowing for a tight fit). Over time will this implementation not create vibration - due to metal on metal contact thru out : post, rail and spacer? Using alternate materials such as nylon for spacers and possibly a rubber washer to insulate post (sitting on aluminum extrusion) could alleviate potential rattles. However your post - slide into the rails - what are the tolerances - as to not allow up and down motion of post as bar vibrates?
My post are made from hyalloy within 0,1 mm Tolerance. If I hit on the bars there is no noise. If I hit on the posts l have metallic noise.
(Send from my mobile)
tell me more!
can one use original Musser resonators and just get the folding frame to retrofit, or do you need to buy the whole set altogether?
This is really what we need. Not more bells and whistles fancy gadgets and proprietary parts to service and repair. A frame that folds up small enough to be rolled on a cart on a train or thrown in the back of a cab. Something that;s functional and can be traveled with. Is there a website with more info?
-tyler
Yes, you can use the original Musser resonators.
You could make own (lighter) resonators, but you mustn't.
Go to www.wyndorps.de than click on #Vibraphon#.
There You will find more pictures, more information, a 3D-PDF with design details and a video (only german spoken, sorry) showing how to use the 3D-PDF.
Hi Paul,
Any chance you or some of the students would build and sell these frames..? Can it be modified for different dimensions, like for Yamaha bars? I would maybe be interested in buying one, but not building it myself!
Thanks,
Steve
yes, we can build custom frames. Yamaha is no problem.
After the spring vibe 2016 meeting there is a bigger demand for this frames.
I am in contact with some students to build those frames.
The things I currently don't know about are duty and delivering costs. But may be you are in Germany some time?
I am currently out of office, but I will sent you a list of the measurement data I need from your Yamaha as soon as I' ll be back. You could sent me an email contact to wyndorps@web.de?
That's incredible! I think the hardest thing about being a vibes player is how inconvenient it is to take the thing anywhere and how long it takes to set up. A frame like this would be great to have.
about one year ago (may 2016) I signed a contract with company Malletch that gives them the right to build this type of frame. They got all my design data. Unfortunaly I think they haven't up to now build such a frame, as they told me because of too much other developements.
This is my first design study for a Vibraphone (M55 Size) packaged in a commercial travel suitcase XXL (Samsonite Thermo Young) - without bars.
Depending on the model options (wooden bar or aluminum T-slot profile, with or without tuning device for resonance tubes, rubber or metal bar posts ), the first weight calculation results in a weight without suitcase and bars of 21 to 26 kg.
It would be possible to save a lot of additional space by using a tube in tube concept for the resonance tubes, but that would need double the number of alumnium pipe diameters, which would increase the cost because of minimum order quantity 6 meter.
Now I need to find enough free time and money to build my prototype.
How do you think about that concepts?
Would it be stable? Looks like the legs could be spread out more. Neat idea for tube in tube. Would need Malletech wings instead of fans if you want tremolo.
Well, I think you're a brilliant engineer! There are some things that I (as a vibraphonist) would have to test on my own. I play hard and I pedal a lot. These things (as you know) create a lot of stress on the instrument and create a lot of potential for rattles, noise and jiggling at every joint. So, I'd have to play it. I really like the resonator inside resonator idea. I also considered an idea to hang each tube separately and transport them inside of each other. Use a pair of folding resonator rails, then as you set up, set the rails up and then simply drop each tube into place.
Please note that ROUND tube pedals are not good. They are very uncomfortable on the foot due to the surface area that the foot is in touch with (easy fix).
As a fan of windsurfing I use clamcleats (very cheap: Clamcleat CL204 Mini) instead of springs.
The pedal could be done as sheetmetal or what ever you want. My first vibe was a Premier and I got used to the round tube pedal. I liked it more than the Musser/Omega moving sheetmetall pedal.
I don't think, that stability will be any problem because there is no axial stimulation.
In cross direction I designed nearly the same wheel distance as the traditional frame designs becaus there is a stimulation by using the pedal.
But to be sure, I want to create a prototyp before sharing design data.
I currently have not the time to continue with the design because of the day job. But I will share more information as soon as available. There are a lot of other ideas going to be realised in that design.
Well, if you say it is so then I believe it. I'm a fan of yours. Please keep us informed! I can't wait to see what's coming from you. I'm a very particular player regarding the pedal. Someday, I'm coming to visit you and get a look first hand!
Since I will not be able to build more frames in the long run for private reasons, I decided to publish my construction data.
As a first step, I have published on the linked page all documents and model data to build a very stable folding frame from aluminum T-profiles, suitable for Deagan 584 Nocturne bars according to the video from the first post.
As I have time, I will post corresponding data for a Musser M55 bar set.
For some sheet metal bending parts, the necessary CAD data (Step format) are attached, so that they can be produced at any sheet metal fabricator. The bar posts are attached as 3D printed parts in STL format, which can be used by any 3D printing service.
The rest of the work is limited to sawing, drilling, threading and assembling.
Very sorry to hear that you are not building these anymore! In fact, I was just going to contact you about perhaps making an order. Hope everything is OK, and thank you for publishing the plans.
I wonder if there are others out there who would want one of these frames…?? Anyone using pickups should want this design as it allows the bars to stay connected and drastically speeds setup & breakdown. Maybe if there were 5+ orders, we could find someone to make them in the USA (don't want to build it myself). Perhaps Malletech would again be interested? I'd be happy to talk to Leigh about it and use the Omega bars.
One question- for fullsize complete resonators that do not break apart into tubes, what is the best, lightest material? Most manufacturers use thick metal to withstand school bandrooms, but they are crazy heavy.
Cheers, Steve
also ps: yes Paul receives a royalty on each unit :-)
Hi Steve,
unfortunately several circumstances have come together, the need for care of my parents, the flooding of my workshop in the basement and the need to work online without personal contact with the students.
I just don't have the time and motivation to start all over again.
About the resonance tubes:
You get the best sound with brass tubes, but they are very heavy. Steel tubes in the same dimensions are a bit lighter. Thicker aluminum tubes hardly have any noticeable loss of sound. Since the very thin-walled aluminum tubes are very difficult to get in Europe, I have always used 1.5mm thick tubes. In the USA you can get 0.035" = 0.9 mm tubes. These will be a little weaker in terms of sound because of their lower width stability, but they will save a significant amount of weight compared to steel. I actually use my 1.5mm thick PVC-U tubes the most. They sound a little less brilliant than my 1.5mm aluminum tubes, but most of the time it doesn't bother me. The advantage of PVC pipes is that they are virtually indestructible and cheap. I drive these tubes with a simple folding frame for 5 years permanently around in the car and am thus always and everywhere playable.
I have one of Paul's frames at my house in Denton, Tx. Paul was so kind to send me one to check out. It has a lot of great engineering ideas but it's not the frame for me. If you'd like to check it out, it's for sale through Paul. I take no fee but I'm happy to serve as the middle man and show it to you if you're in the area. Send me an email at PIPERvibe@gmail.com
Hi Paul,
I understand, and am very sorry that you were victim to the awful flooding this year...I wish that I had decided about this sooner. Thanks for the details about the resonators. Yes I also feel that PVC is the right material for portability, and should sound fine, esp if using pickups. I will follow-up by email with JMP about the frame.
All Best,
Steve
Comments
that is great!!!!
tonymiceli Tue, 02/16/2016 - 07:50
that is great!!!!
Thank you!
wyndorps Tue, 02/16/2016 - 08:54
In reply to that is great!!!! by tonymiceli
Thank you!
I am looking forward to see you at Spring Vibes Germany.
Two seperate racks of keys...
roy pertchik Sat, 07/03/2021 - 11:02
In reply to that is great!!!! by tonymiceli
Yes, I built my trichromatic vibe frame with the keybed rack in two parts, just like that!
Cool
DanaSud Wed, 02/17/2016 - 10:43
Interesting design!
great design
Michael DuBick Wed, 02/17/2016 - 12:13
Wow, that was an amazing quick set up, faster than any other product on the market as far as I know. One question for you. Are the bar posts o rings or hooks? You may have covered this in earlier posts but I don't remember which you used.
Posts used
wyndorps Wed, 02/17/2016 - 12:41
In reply to great design by Michael DuBick
I used hooks (form A) for the frames I have build up to now.
But you can get everything you want. May be a combination of form A in the outer lines and form B in the inner lines. Ring posts are not necessary and not senceful, because removing the bars takes too long. If you fear to lose the bars during transport, the hook posts could for example be arranged in alternating direction.
thanks
Michael DuBick Thu, 02/18/2016 - 11:44
In reply to Posts used by wyndorps
Thank you. I thought you had used hooks and saddle posts, which is the standard now used by all manufacturers. The ease of removing the bars when you have to is essential and portability is not a problem. A few years ago, I replaced the o rings on my 1950's Deagan vibes with hook and saddle posts. It was a project but I'm thankful for it everyday.
Posts
KeithScott Wed, 03/02/2016 - 00:06
In reply to Posts used by wyndorps
Paul:
The posts, rails and spacers are all made of aluminum and in your implementation these items are in contact with one another (such allowing for a tight fit). Over time will this implementation not create vibration - due to metal on metal contact thru out : post, rail and spacer? Using alternate materials such as nylon for spacers and possibly a rubber washer to insulate post (sitting on aluminum extrusion) could alleviate potential rattles. However your post - slide into the rails - what are the tolerances - as to not allow up and down motion of post as bar vibrates?
Regards
Keith
My post are made from hyalloy
wyndorps Wed, 03/02/2016 - 03:41
In reply to Posts by KeithScott
My post are made from hyalloy within 0,1 mm Tolerance. If I hit on the bars there is no noise. If I hit on the posts l have metallic noise.
(Send from my mobile)
simple pickup system
wyndorps Fri, 02/26/2016 - 14:25
I have now added my first selfmade simple pickup system.
I think, it is working pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtJxl5zgl4VD0wZGy0VosKw
Yessss!
Tylerblanton Tue, 03/01/2016 - 11:20
tell me more!
can one use original Musser resonators and just get the folding frame to retrofit, or do you need to buy the whole set altogether?
This is really what we need. Not more bells and whistles fancy gadgets and proprietary parts to service and repair. A frame that folds up small enough to be rolled on a cart on a train or thrown in the back of a cab. Something that;s functional and can be traveled with. Is there a website with more info?
-tyler
Yes
wyndorps Tue, 03/01/2016 - 12:24
In reply to Yessss! by Tylerblanton
Yes, you can use the original Musser resonators.
You could make own (lighter) resonators, but you mustn't.
Go to www.wyndorps.de than click on #Vibraphon#.
There You will find more pictures, more information, a 3D-PDF with design details and a video (only german spoken, sorry) showing how to use the 3D-PDF.
Custom build
Steve Shapiro Sat, 03/12/2016 - 15:58
In reply to Yes by wyndorps
Hi Paul,
Any chance you or some of the students would build and sell these frames..? Can it be modified for different dimensions, like for Yamaha bars? I would maybe be interested in buying one, but not building it myself!
Thanks,
Steve
Custom frames are possible
wyndorps Sun, 03/13/2016 - 07:11
In reply to Custom build by Steve Shapiro
Hi Steve,
yes, we can build custom frames. Yamaha is no problem.
After the spring vibe 2016 meeting there is a bigger demand for this frames.
I am in contact with some students to build those frames.
The things I currently don't know about are duty and delivering costs. But may be you are in Germany some time?
I am currently out of office, but I will sent you a list of the measurement data I need from your Yamaha as soon as I' ll be back. You could sent me an email contact to wyndorps@web.de?
Thanks
Steve Shapiro Sun, 03/13/2016 - 13:23
In reply to Custom frames are possible by wyndorps
Paul, sent you an email but it bounced back...
I don't know why
wyndorps Mon, 03/14/2016 - 05:28
In reply to Thanks by Steve Shapiro
I don't know why it doesn't work, but try Paul.wyndorps@Reutlingen-university.de
That looks great!
Piper Thu, 04/20/2017 - 18:25
Where are you located? I want to come play this and buy one if it works for me!
That's incredible! I think
matthewmiller Mon, 04/24/2017 - 13:43
That's incredible! I think the hardest thing about being a vibes player is how inconvenient it is to take the thing anywhere and how long it takes to set up. A frame like this would be great to have.
Foldable Frame
wyndorps Tue, 04/25/2017 - 03:08
Hello John Mark,
hello Mathew,
about one year ago (may 2016) I signed a contract with company Malletch that gives them the right to build this type of frame. They got all my design data. Unfortunaly I think they haven't up to now build such a frame, as they told me because of too much other developements.
Please contact Malletech company.
Bests
Paul Wyndorps (from Germany)
That's great! I hope you got
rogersvibes Wed, 04/26/2017 - 11:07
In reply to Foldable Frame by wyndorps
That's great! I hope you got a nice chunk of change for your genius.
By the way, nice version of Kenny Wheeler's "Everyone's Song But My Own" in the video. One of my favourites.
-Tristan
This instrument is very interesting
Piper Sat, 07/10/2021 - 08:07
Very interesting stuff going on here.
Suitcase M55-Frame
wyndorps Mon, 05/22/2017 - 03:20
This is my first design study for a Vibraphone (M55 Size) packaged in a commercial travel suitcase XXL (Samsonite Thermo Young) - without bars.
Depending on the model options (wooden bar or aluminum T-slot profile, with or without tuning device for resonance tubes, rubber or metal bar posts ), the first weight calculation results in a weight without suitcase and bars of 21 to 26 kg.
It would be possible to save a lot of additional space by using a tube in tube concept for the resonance tubes, but that would need double the number of alumnium pipe diameters, which would increase the cost because of minimum order quantity 6 meter.
Now I need to find enough free time and money to build my prototype.
How do you think about that concepts?
Cool Ideas
BarryK Mon, 05/22/2017 - 07:01
In reply to Suitcase M55-Frame by wyndorps
Would it be stable? Looks like the legs could be spread out more. Neat idea for tube in tube. Would need Malletech wings instead of fans if you want tremolo.
Barry
Well, I think you're a
Piper Mon, 05/22/2017 - 09:49
In reply to Suitcase M55-Frame by wyndorps
Well, I think you're a brilliant engineer! There are some things that I (as a vibraphonist) would have to test on my own. I play hard and I pedal a lot. These things (as you know) create a lot of stress on the instrument and create a lot of potential for rattles, noise and jiggling at every joint. So, I'd have to play it. I really like the resonator inside resonator idea. I also considered an idea to hang each tube separately and transport them inside of each other. Use a pair of folding resonator rails, then as you set up, set the rails up and then simply drop each tube into place.
The pedal...
Piper Mon, 05/22/2017 - 10:00
In reply to Well, I think you're a by Piper
Please note that ROUND tube pedals are not good. They are very uncomfortable on the foot due to the surface area that the foot is in touch with (easy fix).
Springless Stringer
Piper Mon, 05/22/2017 - 10:04
In reply to Well, I think you're a by Piper
It looks like you've adopted my idea of getting rid of the springs for the bar string! Bravo. I'll bet your way is brilliant. Can you share it?
Sprinless Stringer, Pedal & Stability
wyndorps Tue, 05/23/2017 - 02:22
In reply to Springless Stringer by Piper
As a fan of windsurfing I use clamcleats (very cheap: Clamcleat CL204 Mini) instead of springs.
The pedal could be done as sheetmetal or what ever you want. My first vibe was a Premier and I got used to the round tube pedal. I liked it more than the Musser/Omega moving sheetmetall pedal.
I don't think, that stability will be any problem because there is no axial stimulation.
In cross direction I designed nearly the same wheel distance as the traditional frame designs becaus there is a stimulation by using the pedal.
But to be sure, I want to create a prototyp before sharing design data.
I currently have not the time to continue with the design because of the day job. But I will share more information as soon as available. There are a lot of other ideas going to be realised in that design.
I'm a fan!
Piper Tue, 05/23/2017 - 02:52
In reply to Sprinless Stringer, Pedal & Stability by wyndorps
Well, if you say it is so then I believe it. I'm a fan of yours. Please keep us informed! I can't wait to see what's coming from you. I'm a very particular player regarding the pedal. Someday, I'm coming to visit you and get a look first hand!
Construction Data Folding Frame DEAGAN (for free)
wyndorps Tue, 08/03/2021 - 10:11
Since I will not be able to build more frames in the long run for private reasons, I decided to publish my construction data.
As a first step, I have published on the linked page all documents and model data to build a very stable folding frame from aluminum T-profiles, suitable for Deagan 584 Nocturne bars according to the video from the first post.
As I have time, I will post corresponding data for a Musser M55 bar set.
For some sheet metal bending parts, the necessary CAD data (Step format) are attached, so that they can be produced at any sheet metal fabricator. The bar posts are attached as 3D printed parts in STL format, which can be used by any 3D printing service.
The rest of the work is limited to sawing, drilling, threading and assembling.
Have fun, enjoyment and success.
http://wyndorps.de/Englisch/E_DIY_Akkordeonrahmen.htm
maravillso
totiangeloni Fri, 08/13/2021 - 18:22
Genial, súper practico!
Great!
Thanks
Steve Shapiro Sun, 08/15/2021 - 12:19
Very sorry to hear that you are not building these anymore! In fact, I was just going to contact you about perhaps making an order. Hope everything is OK, and thank you for publishing the plans.
I wonder if there are others out there who would want one of these frames…?? Anyone using pickups should want this design as it allows the bars to stay connected and drastically speeds setup & breakdown. Maybe if there were 5+ orders, we could find someone to make them in the USA (don't want to build it myself). Perhaps Malletech would again be interested? I'd be happy to talk to Leigh about it and use the Omega bars.
One question- for fullsize complete resonators that do not break apart into tubes, what is the best, lightest material? Most manufacturers use thick metal to withstand school bandrooms, but they are crazy heavy.
Cheers, Steve
also ps: yes Paul receives a royalty on each unit :-)
Hi Steve,
wyndorps Mon, 08/16/2021 - 03:07
In reply to Thanks by Steve Shapiro
Hi Steve,
unfortunately several circumstances have come together, the need for care of my parents, the flooding of my workshop in the basement and the need to work online without personal contact with the students.
I just don't have the time and motivation to start all over again.
About the resonance tubes:
You get the best sound with brass tubes, but they are very heavy. Steel tubes in the same dimensions are a bit lighter. Thicker aluminum tubes hardly have any noticeable loss of sound. Since the very thin-walled aluminum tubes are very difficult to get in Europe, I have always used 1.5mm thick tubes. In the USA you can get 0.035" = 0.9 mm tubes. These will be a little weaker in terms of sound because of their lower width stability, but they will save a significant amount of weight compared to steel. I actually use my 1.5mm thick PVC-U tubes the most. They sound a little less brilliant than my 1.5mm aluminum tubes, but most of the time it doesn't bother me. The advantage of PVC pipes is that they are virtually indestructible and cheap. I drive these tubes with a simple folding frame for 5 years permanently around in the car and am thus always and everywhere playable.
I have one of Pauls Frames
Piper Mon, 08/16/2021 - 08:59
In reply to Hi Steve, by wyndorps
I have one of Paul's frames at my house in Denton, Tx. Paul was so kind to send me one to check out. It has a lot of great engineering ideas but it's not the frame for me. If you'd like to check it out, it's for sale through Paul. I take no fee but I'm happy to serve as the middle man and show it to you if you're in the area. Send me an email at PIPERvibe@gmail.com
OK
Steve Shapiro Wed, 08/18/2021 - 00:20
In reply to Hi Steve, by wyndorps
Hi Paul,
I understand, and am very sorry that you were victim to the awful flooding this year...I wish that I had decided about this sooner. Thanks for the details about the resonators. Yes I also feel that PVC is the right material for portability, and should sound fine, esp if using pickups. I will follow-up by email with JMP about the frame.
All Best,
Steve