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Making blues/jazz changes

drslg 17 January 2011

I recently discovered a pattern in the jazz/ blue changes. Take the simple change of Bflat major 7 to e flat major 7 and back to b flat 7. Then you would go to f major 7 and down to eflat 7 and bflat 7, right? Thats just a simple thing. but theres a pattern. E flat is the 4th note of the bflat scale. f is the fifth.
heres my question
can you take any scale and make a "jazzy" progression just by using the 4ts and the fifth's scales? Does it work for every scale.
im pretty sure it doesn't work in minor. it may not work for some keys either.

Comments

tpvibes Mon, 01/17/2011 - 22:31

I'm not sure exactly what you're driving at here, so don't be offended if this info is too basic for you. The basic 12-bar blues progression goes like this:

I7///|/////|////|////|IV7///|////|I7///|////|V7///|IV7///|I7///|////|

Where the Roman numerals refer to the degrees of the scale -- so in Bb, I7 would be Bb7, IV7 is Eb7 and V7 is F7 (note all dominant sevenths, not major sevenths). This holds for all keys, of course. In Db, the chords would be Db7, Gb7 and Ab7.

Jazz players rarely use the basic blues though. There are dozens or maybe even hundreds of variations, but a common simple one is:

I7///|IV7///|I7///|////|IV7///|////|I7///|////|ii-7///|V7///|I7/VI7/|II7/V7/|

In Bb, the ii-7 is C-7 (minor chords are usually given lower-case Roman numerals), VI7 is G7, and II7 is C7. The last two bars are called a turnaround, and there are many variations of that.

It is possible to have a minor blues too. The basic minor blues goes like this:
i-7///|////|////|I7///|iv-7///|////|i-7///|////|ii-7b5///|V7///|i-7///|ii-7b5/V7/|

In C minor, i-7 is C-7, I7 is C7, iv-7 is F-7, ii-7b5 is D-7b5 and V7 is G7.

Hope this helps.

Tom P.

drslg Tue, 01/18/2011 - 09:49

i do not intend for anyone to use this, i was just pointing out a pattern. I thought the pattern was neat.

tonymiceli Tue, 01/18/2011 - 11:41

i'm confused also. but one part i get.

you can sort of harmony any scale with any chord found in it because they're related. in fact you can use them as sort of substitutions.

Take D dorian, it's easy to get to an Fmaj7 or a G7 chord as a sub in that mode. you just usually have to get back to the Dmin.

is that sort of what you mean?

you mention blues scale but then choose chords that are a little foreign. hmm, can you play this so we hear what your doing?

drslg Tue, 01/18/2011 - 11:59

i am talking about simple twelve bar blues.
i was playing around with one when i noticed the pattern. each twelve bar blues has three chords. Example

play these chords. four beats each

Fmaj 7
Fmaj 7
Bflat maj 7
bflat maj 7
Fmaj 7
Fmaj 7
cmaj 7
bflat maj 7
Fmaj 7

if you want, you can solo around with them. no need though.
So that is a simple blues progression. i cannot make it any more clearer.
Now if you take the first note of each chord, F, Bflat, and c, you will find that bflat is the 4th note of the fmaj scale. c is the 5th note of the f major scale. therefore, if you take the 1st 4th and 5th of any scale, you have a twelve bar blues. when you take the 4th and 5th, play that designated chord. EG

If you were doing a blues in bflat,
e flat is the 4th note, so play a b flat maj 7 chord twice, and then a e flat maj 7 chord twice, and so on....

now does this make sense?

p.S for all i care, you can do this in any key.

tpvibes Tue, 01/18/2011 - 13:03

OK, I see what you're driving at, I think. And my original comment would seem to be on the mark. The progression you have above has a few problems if you're thinking of it as a blues -- it's only 9 bars and all of those major 7s aren't going to sound very bluesy. And the Cmaj7 is going to sound kind of weird. Using your notation, the basic 12-bar blues in F goes like this:

F7
F7
F7
F7
Bb7
Bb7
F7
F7
C7
Bb7
F7
F7

Tom P.

tonymiceli Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:09

do you mean these notes:
F A C E

or these notes:

F A C Eb

to me Fmaj 7 means FACE and that's not the blues. so you have something screwed here, maybe it's just terminology.

tpvibes blues to me is the right one. i don't get what you have there cause DAT AIN'T DA BLUES.

drslg Wed, 01/19/2011 - 16:30

Do you call that F7? i though it was called fmaj 7. I thought it was f maj 7. what do i know though. It f7 is correct, than all of the chords in my previous post are not maj. Im not very good at describing chords. please help

tpvibes Wed, 01/19/2011 - 17:14

C7 - C E G Bb (say "C seven")
Cmaj7 - C E G B (say "C major seven")
C-7 - C Eb G Bb (say "C minor seven")
C-maj7 - C Eb G B (say "C minor major seven")
C-7b5 - C Eb Gb Bb (say "C minor seven flat 5")
Cdim7 - C Eb Gb A (say "C diminished seven")

Sometimes minor is written as 'm' instead of '-', so Cm7 is the same as C-7.

Tom P.

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